So one day this week I had lunch with two straight guys. Both work in my office, and I know them well. Both are guys that have overcome a lot in life, and have a competitive streak (big time). Both happily married with children, both as Mormon as they come, raised in the church. One grew up in California, one in Colorado. I usually enjoy their company. Lunch was tasty, and the conversation fascinating.
For some reason, we got on the topic of Prop 8, Gay Marriage, etc. I'm not out at work, and don't intend to be. Utah County just isn't much of a place to be "out" at work. In a lot of ways, I'm similar, in some ways extremely opposite. I was a convert, not a "bic" child. I grew up far from areas where mormon wards had much reach. I'm gay, they are straight. I'm much more of a political moderate than them. I enjoy challenging their thinking....
So the conversation was definitely fascinating. Its hard to recreate the conversation, but their were points that just struck me. One of them swore that if the church ever accepted Gay Marriage, he would leave the church. I pointed out how the church's position on things like polygamy and black's holding the priesthood had changed too. Explained my belief that you can't have things like prop 8 when you have a 14th amendment as part of the US constitution. I told them I thought it was a total waste of church resources to fight against Prop 8 when there were so many more important things for them to focus their efforts on. I told them I believed it was a losing battle.
One of them had gay LDS friends growing up, and didn't really believe they were "purely" gay since they had been attracted to/dated girls at some point. I told him that was like saying he "chose to be straight" at some point.
The conversation was long. Their were points when I just wanted to scream--WTF!!!SXXXX@@!@ But, of course, I couldn't. It was not really possible. They are so convinced of their way, and that there could be no other.
This mentality, at this point in my life, just sort of horrifies me. I can't accept it, and don't want to tolerate it.
Had a conversation like this lately?
For some reason, we got on the topic of Prop 8, Gay Marriage, etc. I'm not out at work, and don't intend to be. Utah County just isn't much of a place to be "out" at work. In a lot of ways, I'm similar, in some ways extremely opposite. I was a convert, not a "bic" child. I grew up far from areas where mormon wards had much reach. I'm gay, they are straight. I'm much more of a political moderate than them. I enjoy challenging their thinking....
So the conversation was definitely fascinating. Its hard to recreate the conversation, but their were points that just struck me. One of them swore that if the church ever accepted Gay Marriage, he would leave the church. I pointed out how the church's position on things like polygamy and black's holding the priesthood had changed too. Explained my belief that you can't have things like prop 8 when you have a 14th amendment as part of the US constitution. I told them I thought it was a total waste of church resources to fight against Prop 8 when there were so many more important things for them to focus their efforts on. I told them I believed it was a losing battle.
One of them had gay LDS friends growing up, and didn't really believe they were "purely" gay since they had been attracted to/dated girls at some point. I told him that was like saying he "chose to be straight" at some point.
The conversation was long. Their were points when I just wanted to scream--WTF!!!SXXXX@@!@ But, of course, I couldn't. It was not really possible. They are so convinced of their way, and that there could be no other.
This mentality, at this point in my life, just sort of horrifies me. I can't accept it, and don't want to tolerate it.
Had a conversation like this lately?
YIKES!! I loathe the mentality of Utah/mainstream mormonism. Loathe, loathe, LOATHE!
ReplyDeleteYour friend's comment about leaving the church if it ever accepted gay marriage is a very interesting one. I suspect that this goes way beyond mere standard Mormon intolerance and homophobia (which is, um, saying a lot) ...
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Merry Christmas "Complicated." Hope you have a good one!
I once lived in Utah County. I once shared that mentality. I moved and found there is life outside Utah County.
ReplyDeleteThat said, my last such conversation resulted in a heated confrontation with my very conservative neighbor. We ended up agreeing to disagree and we haven't spoken about it sense, but we both know we, who are priesthood brethren together, are somehow on different teams.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
Like you, I find this type of conversation frustrating. It probably won't get much better until the person who makes those statements has a "gay life crisis" within his own family or until the church moderates it position. I lived in Utah County for 13 years so I understand. The example you set by just being who you are also helps a lot. Best regards and have a great holiday.
ReplyDeleteI kept wondering what these two men would do if either of them end up with gay sons.
ReplyDelete