Recently, one of the GA's--Elder Wickham said in a church news conference that:
That "same-gender attraction did not exist in the pre-earth life and neither will it exist in the next life" (One of the first definitive statements on the eternal/mortal nature of homosexuality).
Yet the Book of Mormon, which I trust much more than this Elder, says in Alma 34:34
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
So how on earth do you reconcile these two things? Is it saying that homosexuality is a condition of the imperfect human body which won't exist later. That doesn't seem to make sense.
What do you think?
I was thinking about this last night. I don't have the answer, but I am praying for it.
ReplyDeleteI believe that I will be the same there as here. I can't imagine myself any other way.
ReplyDeleteWhen Alma says "spirit," the context of the chapter makes it fairly clear that he's talking about one's disposition to repent, and not much else.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if you believe sexual orientation to be innate and unchangeable, you probably don't want to link it to this scripture; the "spirit" that Alma is talking about is obviously malleable during this life, if not the life to come.
I can accept that same gender attraction did not exist before this life nor in the life hereafter - only IF you can say the same thing about opposite gender attraction.
ReplyDeleteI can probably understand the state of the pre-existence spirit as being perfect (not gay? LOL) but I thought the whole reason of coming down, taking on a body and going through all these experiences was part of the plan.
ReplyDeleteSomehow moving on after life and returning to the innocent state would negate everything that encompasses eternal progression, so in my POV the GA's statement is flawed (Did he speak as a man or as a prophet?---lots can be argued there!--but I certainly don't claim to be a scholar in Mormon doctrine.
Hugs, pl
Matt--the context does seem to be about your disposition to repent, but our spirits certainly weren't perfect in the pre-mortal life, given that 1/3 of the hosts of heaven took Satan's side according to the church. If the flaws that that involved (pride, arrogance, rebellion, etc) were present, I have to wonder how we are supposed to eliminate earth-learned/experienced traits from our spirit once we head into the spirit world. For example--ever heard those "stories" about spirits on the other side desperately wishing for a cigarette, etc? Memory can't be washed--only enhanced by the fact that it is no longer limited by our physical bodies.
ReplyDeleteSo if any of you ever pray and receive an answer on this one--please share it.
Pl, losing a characteristic doesn't mean "returning to the innocent state." Some experiences/circumstances/attributes are meant to be temporary. The point is the experience we gain while we do have them.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I like the theory of sexual attraction as a solely mortal experience.
Joe, would you say orientation is comparable to a nicotene craving? I think they're fundamentally different. Orientation seems more akin to something like chronic pain(except, some would argue, not negative), which I certainly do hope I won't have to deal with in the next life.
Maybe it has to do with the choice, or lack of choice, involved in the "traits" that persist or don't persist.
Wow! I'm glad that people still read my blog ;) I just read yours. I hope that things can be resolved.
ReplyDeleteMatt--No I don't think orientation is akin to nicotene addiction--just a poor example perhaps. I also don't believe sexual attraction can end with this life. How on earth are you supposed to live in eternal marriage with someone if you aren't even attracted to them? From my limited earthly perspective--it has to continue.
ReplyDeleteRomulus: Thanks. Would love to hear from you by email sometime. I'm fascinated by the fact that you and your twin brother both face the same issue. 220niowa@gmail.com
My belief is that I was not necessarily born gay. Then again, I don't think any one was born heterosexual either. In the pre-existence none of us had sexuality. We had no bodies, no hormones, but we did have personalities and dispositions that play a big role in who we are. Our sexualities develop in this life. We know that the “same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world” (Alma 34:34).
ReplyDeleteI can only conclude that I will be gay in the next life as well.
It wouldn't just be "losing a characteristic". Being gay is a huge part of WHO WE ARE. If that were to disappear, then I would be someone completely different on the other side. I can't agree with Elder Wickham on this.
How on earth are you supposed to live in eternal marriage with someone if you aren't even attracted to them?Aren't sexually attracted to them, and as long as you're not sexually attracted to anyone else, I don't see a problem. I can imagine sex as a non-issue in the next life, with resurrected bodies.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I believe it will be a non-issue, but I haven't heard a good reason to discount the hypothesis.
I have to agree with Abelard and Austin Kempton on this one...I cannot imagine not being gay in the next life. Perhaps that's because I don't feel homosexuality is a flaw--at least, not any more than heterosexuality is. Moreover, I wouldn't want to be "freed" of the nature of my being! As I wrote on my blog yesterday, I feel that my sexuality is more of a matter of the spirit than the body. And in that case, my spirit's nature--including, I believe, my sexuality (or some kind of premortal equivalent of sexuality)--is now as it was in the premortal existence and will be in the postmortal existence.
ReplyDeleteI only feel homosexuality is a flaw when dealing with or thinking about the church.
ReplyDelete@Matt and others who anticipate a sex-less afterlife, Google the phrase "TK Smoothie" and enjoy what you find.
ReplyDeletePersonally I can't imagine this "core characteristic" as even Lance Wickman described it suddenly vaporizing at death. Though Alma may have been talking about a disposition to repent, the phrase is also susceptible to a broader interpretation. I think each of us senses what our own "core characteristics" are, and for me this one is as immutable as any I can think of. To have it removed in the eternities would make me somebody else. No thanks.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThere are different ways to view homosexuality. Religion tends to view homosexuality as a sickness / deviant behavior / not normal or as you put it "a condition of an imperfect human body". I view homosexuality as a natural and beautiful variation of human sexuality that adds to the rich tapestry of human experience.
ReplyDeleteTwo men loving each other is just as beautiful as a heterosexual relationship. The two experiences are completely different, but each experience is important and adds to collective human knowledge and understanding.
The idea that "God" does not value homosexual experience and will eradicate it in the next life is absurd and offensive. Would this same God eradicate different cultures or certain skin colors or any other type of human variation? Why would a God do such a thing when all of these things so clearly add to humanities experience and understanding of the world?
I agree with you - it does not make sense for God to make us gay now, and then get rid of this in the next life.